@tn5421 the linux community largely has no interest in usability and it seems that most of the people who do don't know what the hell they are doing. It's partly a resource thing but a lot of it isn't. Even if I excuse all the myriad of problems that one can chalk up to lack of resources, leading workstation release still have utterly boneheaded design decisions that could easily be changed but never will be such as:

Why, on a workstation install, are internal hard drives a) not mounted on boot and b) require ROOT ACCESS to mount?

Why, despite the massive push online for security tokens for mfa, do I have to install multiple packages and then download a udev config file (both steps require root access) just to get one working? On a workstation setup.

Why do I have to manually add my user to an additional group and then relog just to be able to use a serial device. On a workstation setup.

I'll tell you why. Because the Linux community does not care about nor does it understand usability.

Hackintosh community, despite being smaller than the linux community, made a bootloader that is so far ahead of grub2 or systemd-boot, etc. in terms of usability and customization that there are a bunch of tutorials on how to get it to work on Linux.

Again, because the Linux Community does not care about or understand usability.

@animeirl I can understand that. After all, I'm still on windows 10 because it's simply more convenient for me, insofar as the operating system typically does not need my interference to get things working beyond inputting some config. I'd love to switch on to a platform that doesn't have a ton of spyware by default but most linux distributions are simply too finicky to use. I also very much protest that many of them seem to make the terminal front and center of 'basic use' of their OS.

@tn5421 it was legit easier to hack macOS to run on my PC than it was to get a Linux Desktop in a state I actually liked using.

@tn5421 oh and while im at it, another example of the Linux community's general failure to understand UX: despite the encryption tool, GPG, literally being PART OF THE GNU PROJECT, the only halfway decent gui/desktop integration is in the mac port.

@animeirl @tn5421 I find Devuan Linux with XFCE easy to use. All internal drives are mounted as the way they were to be uaed was decided on install. External drives (USB) are mounted automatically. SysVinit is a much simpler beast than systemd. Not sure what you're doing that requires any heavy work with GrUB but there's plenty of knowledge online.
Sudo is simple to set up in order to make it easier to do tasks that require elevated privileges. On top of all that, it doesn't have a GUI that was designed for phones.
If it was extremely easy to use then it would encourage ppl who should still be using 'speak and spell' electronic toys to do things that would lose their data lol

@oshwm @animeirl I just want a desktop environment that's roughly as easy to use as windows is and requiring no special technical knowledge to use at the basic level without sacrificing basic functionality.

@animeirl @tn5421 its about time ppl realised that a computer is not as simple to use as a washing machine or cooker and that they need to invest some time learning how computers work before expecting to be able to do anything more than write a letter on them.

@oshwm @animeirl And this is why nobody will ever take linux seriously.

Thanks for proving my point.

@tn5421 @animeirl ooh look at me I'm entitled to use a complex piece of electronics, its my right and I shouldn't be expected to put any effort into learning how to use it. Do you apply the same logic to driving a car?

@animeirl @tn5421 Do you know that fstab(5) has 'user' option? (so filesystems can be mounted with normal users)

@animeirl @tn5421 they care, but if you want such system that doesn't require root permission to mount filesystems, you might find 9front interesting

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