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Wolf480pl @Wolf480pl

There's an interesting website, worldofends.com
that explains what Internet is meant to be like. (thanks to @jeffcliff for pointing me to it)

It claims that the corpos and govts that are trying to appropriate the Internet are making a mistake.
Not that they're evil, but that they're mistaken.
As I understand it, it implies that such behaviour doesn't benefit those companies.
That they can't just turn the internet into another TV network and suck money out of the people.
But... why?

I mean, what's stopping these companies from doing just that?
Why can't they make profit by destroing the internet and turning it into a machine for spraying advertisements at eyeballs?

@Wolf480pl Companies are risk adverse in general and developing new revenue models takes risk. Why do something that might make money in the future, when you can do the same old thing that has proven to make some money, even if its a diminishing return.

@Wolf480pl There are many lines in that war for mindshare. Two of the main battle lines is formed around adblockers and legal crypto. If we can hold those two...we can survive as a network long enough to develop alternative forms of governance that can challenge the dominance of those vertically integrated monopolies. Things like irridum & ipv6 hold the promise of universeal, ubiquitous connectivity for everyone.

@jeffcliff yeah, ipv6 looks promising.
Also, what's irridum?

@Wolf480pl global internet service via satellite. Slow as fuck and expensive...but you can get coverage basically anywhere you can see the sky. Which means that no matter how bad your local political environment is, if it ever gets worth it to just say fuck it and use irridium...you can. If they can manage to keep netneutrality on their end there's at least a little pressure of competition to our advantage.

@jeffcliff fun fact: slow internet encourages decentralization.
This might actually be what we need.

@Wolf480pl actually thinking about it a little more... the interplanetary internet is another escape hatch for a broken earth-internet. If we're REALLY desperate, we could probably get a connection to it.

@jeffcliff so basically "it's 2018 why haven't we colonized the space yet" ?

@Wolf480pl that and coopting the occupy meme for our purposes yeah basically.

@Wolf480pl (...'our purposes' being weighted by the conclusions of the bostrom paper )

Another thought: They say
>We are all connected equally. Distance doesn't matter. The obstacles fall away and for the first time the human need to connect can be realized without artificial barriers.

And it seems like a good thing, but doesn't it make us extremely vulnerable to manipulation, viral memes, including viral ideologies, etc?

@Wolf480pl developing your bullshito-meter is a good idea

@Dekken but how do you do that in the days when Poe's Law dominates the public discourse?

@Wolf480pl ask for sincerity and clarification

@Wolf480pl We aren't more vulnerable than we used to be. We are merely just starting to realize how fragile we always were.
And so do those willing to oppress us.

@glaurungo yeah, we've always been vulnerable. What I meant is that now we're more exposed.

@Wolf480pl The question becomes how much could they possibly make when there is less reason to be online in the first place (for the people that operate and produce networks for it) and aside from all the tech that does an end run around a walled garden... whose walled garden? Verizon, Disney, Facebook, and the US government are all going to have different, mutually exclusive, answers. None of them benefit the others and all of them make assumptions about the $ value of the future they want

Cryptonomicon spoilers/reference Show more

@Wolf480pl they sure can turn it into another TV network. Just like the soviet union could turn the desert around the aral sea into farmland. Doesn't mean they should

Yeah, but if doing that brings them shitloads of money, and it's their best move from a game-theoretic point of view, IOW doing that is in their best interest, then it's not a mistake.
This means we can't just wait for them to die from the mistake, or create a company that doesn't make this mistake and win effortlessy.
We need to fight them.
We need to defend the Internet.

@Wolf480pl agreed - short term they have every interest in breaking it. Long term the internet is going to be like ubiquitous running water in that societies that do not have it decoupled from those vertically integrated monopolies will be rightly called 'shithole countries'

@jeffcliff I hope it's true, and I hope that when that day comes, there will still be some societies with internet decoupled from monopolies. But I'm not convinced, and I don't think we should rely on it.

@jeffcliff @Wolf480pl What I think the few monopolists are trying to do is to turn the internet into some server warehouses which they own, and which anyone else can connect to via an API which they specify. That would give them total control over what can be seen, what can be advertised and critically over e-commerce. Control capital flow with rent extraction and you control everything in the modern economy.

I think that scenario is avoidable, but it will take effort.

@bob @jeffcliff They're not just after controlling capital flow, they want to control information flow. And that means power over all the people living in their walled garden. An army of zombies watching their algorithmic timelines.

@Wolf480pl @jeffcliff Right. Control the information and you can rig the whole game. I don't think we're at the endgame yet, but things are certainly moving in that direction.

@bob @Wolf480pl I'd imagine that's probably "level 2" of the problem. There's varying groups of monopolies...the dumbest of which try to turn the net into a TV service, the next dumbest try to turn it into a smart TV service, the next dumbest try to turn it into a APIaaS with control over the commanding heights of the economy/capital...each level is a step away from the edges being intentionally crippled

@Wolf480pl @jeffcliff the internet just looks like an intellivison to them

@jeffcliff @Wolf480pl imagine if you had the full infrastructure of the internet but your imagination is so limited that all it is to you is a smart TV that's basically what policy is based on, a 2012 lg smart TV.

@How2io @Wolf480pl ...alas I don't have to imagine, for reasons I won't get into here :s

@jeffcliff @Wolf480pl there is little need to imagine what is already reality in many places