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Unpopular opinion 

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@pfm
Btw. do you want to try to figure out why webapps are so popular and what we can do to fix this?

@Wolf480pl they are popular because you pay for the internet and then everything else is FREE, yay! and it's pretty! animated gifs, glitter and what not! and we can upload pictures of us doing cool things to feel like true celebrities!

using stand-alone software that does its job is BORING!

what's the point of using something on your own PC or laptop?! do it on someone else's infrastructure! be the product!

:januszyelling:

@pfm
`apt install gajim` is also free, and also lets you upload pix...

IMO, there are two important aspects here, that influence each other:
- ease of installation
- branding instead of blending in the system

I'll try to elaborate on them, but my knowledge/suspicions are not systematized yet.

@pfm
1. For some reason, there's a trend for each app to have its own branding and consistent UX across platforms/OSes, instead of each version being consistent with the platform/OS it works on.

2. This is strongly correlated with the trend of each app using its own proprietary protocol, instead of having common, standardized application-layer protocols with multiple implementations.

3. 1 and 2 would be impossible without being able to easily make and distribute cross-platform apps.

@Wolf480pl @pfm i think UI/UX should ultimately be determined by the user, thus platforms should have consistent but themeable UI toolkits
@roka @pfm @Wolf480pl then thats your choice to have a consistently-text user interface if you wish. UI should be a layer of abstraction rather than a framework

@pfm
Ok, so 1 and 2 require that it's easy:
3.A for a developer to make cross-platform app
3.B that there's a way to easily install an app on the target platforms
3.C that it's easy for the developer to start distributing the app in that way

Generally getting people to use something requires that it's easy to install (3.B). Because people are lazy^W^W value their time.

Distro packages are easy to install, but hard for 3rd parties to get their app into.

Webapps are the easiest to install.

@pfm
Webapps are the easiest to install, and the quickest to start distributing. You don't need anyone's approval.

So, we could - in theory - eliminate those one-size-fits-all apps by:
eliminating 3.C - making it so that it's hard for developers to make their apps available for easy installation,
or by eliminating 3.A - making it hard to develop cross-platform apps.

We can't eliminate 3.B because it will also hurt our clients for standard protocols.

@pfm
Another thing related to branding is communication about the protocol/app between newbies.

If the protocol, the network, and the client have the same name, it's easy. "Hey, are you on Telegram?" "No, how do I?" "Just search >>telegram<< and install the first search result".

@pfm

OTOH, with XMPP^W Jabber (for the sake of easy pronunciation), the person will need to find a Jabber client for their platform. There will hopefully be more than one. They'll have to decide which to use.

And then they'll need to remember the association between their clients' name, and the name of the protocol.

And all that assumes they care enough to make a decision and not quit the first moment they see multiple options.

Unpopular opinion 

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