@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos if all widely used compilers of a given languages are memes then the language is a meme

@Michcioperz @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos no, that's not the case

@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos please, if you can't use it without using memes, it's a meme

@Michcioperz @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos 6c at al

@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos I can't find the thing you're referring to on the internet

@Michcioperz @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos the plan9 C compilers

@Michcioperz @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos also note that I intend to eventually write my own C compiler

@sir @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos btw. have you seen tcc?

@Wolf480pl @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos yeah, it's decent but x86 specific is meh

@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos that seems to lack tenure by definition

@Michcioperz @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos it does, but if the only criteria qualifying something as meme is lack of tenure, time will strip away its meme status for free

@sir @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos and then it will also strip the meme status of C as a standard.

@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos does that mean every old language is now tenured, no matter how unstable it is?

@sir @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos
so OCaml is also tenured - it's 22 years old, and the time has stripped away it's meme status.

@Wolf480pl @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos no. Look, you guys can continue to poke little holes in my definition of meme but the fact remains and has always been that this criteria is only a loose approximation of a process which boils down to gut feeling

@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos wait, duh, we were talking about your gut feeling all the time? what a bummer

@sir @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos
Well, then I'd say your gut feeling is not very useful outside of your mind. Feel free to use it in making decisions, but don't expect other to treat you saying "it's a meme" as a valid argument.

@sir @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos
IOW, sucks to be you.

@Wolf480pl @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos sucks to be you, actually, cause you'll still have to listen to me dismiss things as memes. IOW, idgaf if you don't like it

@sir @Michcioperz @kurisu @thanatos no, I choose to listen to you dismiss things as memes.

@kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz @sir
the spec is simple. The compiler being a meme doesn't make the language a meme, similarly to how C is not a meme despite gcc and llvm being memes.

@Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz does ocaml have a non-meme implementation though? C does

@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz I'd claim that SML is non-meme, OCaml is meme.

@wasamasa @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz functional programming languages which are not lisp are a meme

@sir @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz Lisp isn't about functional programming though.

@wasamasa @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz obviously that's a broad generalization but in my experience pretty much all functional programming environments are designed by people who have no practical sensibility

@wasamasa @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz at some point functional programming must face the reality that their computers are procedural, and how they approach this problem is a gauge of their aptitude and odds of success and non-memeiness

@sir @wasamasa @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz unless they decide to implement lambda calculus in hardware. Which would be interesting IMO, but probably not very practical.

@sir @wasamasa @Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos @Michcioperz Compilers generally do a good job at translating functional constructs to procedural ones though.

@sir @kurisu @thanatos but the C standard is designed with such complex optimizers in mind. It specifically has Undefined Behaviour to enable sick optimizations. And Undefined Behaviour causes a ton of nasty edge cases, which make the whole language complex.

@Wolf480pl @kurisu @thanatos it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.